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Show citation statistics for CS1 and CS2 citation elements in the article.
Stats: unnamed refs = 182; named refs = 101; self closed = 14. Click show for details.
War has had a significant impact on society and culture, including the role of women in the workforce, the effect on civilians, and the rise of propaganda. These aspects are only briefly mentioned, but could be expanded into a dedicated section. It is suggested that a new chapter entitled “Social and cultural impact” be added to explore these themes. SelimKarissa (talk) 02:14, 18 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Don't be silly. Please also see the many previous discussions of the infobox: the current content reflects their outcomes. Nick-D (talk) 09:10, 12 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The picture description in the article is rather incorrect and should be adjusted to what was previously written here. The border crossing is being torn down by German Army soldiers and next to them are a couple of Danzig Schutzpolizei functionaries, those are the ones wearing the soft uniform covers.
Ed, the updated description still does not make mention of the German Army here. The two reference sources cited in the Wikipedia Commons image's documentation say: "...dokumentować sukcesy żołnierzy Wehrmachtu w dniu rozpoczęcia II wojny światowej. "[2] and "Zdjęcie przedstawiające łamanie polskiego szlabanu granicznego przez niemieckich żołnierzy".[3] So, the Wiki Commons description should also be corrected because it does not reflect what the cited reference sources say. The sources say that this is a propaganda photograph depicting German soldiers tearing down the border crossing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.40.152.41 (talk) 20:38, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Btw, I noticed that the English description of the picture in Wiki Commons reads: "Free City of Danzig police and custom officials reenact the removal of the Polish border crossing in Sopot on September 1, 1939.", while the Romanian version states: "Soldaţi germani distrugând punctul polonez de trecere a frontierei de la Sopot, în septembrie 1939." One says Danzig Police and the other German soldiers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.40.152.41 (talk) 20:44, 17 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lova Falk and Ed can we get past the non-sense please? The photograph depicts German army soldiers and Danzig police functionaries (propaganda photo or not). This kind of editing that leave out the obvious, just makes Wikipedia look not very credible and open to criticism of inaccuracy, all you have to do is pull up YouTube videos on WWII or watch the History Channel to learn that Nazi Germany invaded Poland, stated in plain language. But, in the WWII Wikipedia article, which is mired in confusing details, the focus of a picture description is the Danzig police. I'm not really sure if this is being done on purpose or just a case of bad editing, but observing the editing style of this article, I'm especially critical of Ed's approach in this case because Ed highlights in his Wikipedia profile that his role in the Wikimedia Foundation is that of a Communications Specialist, so he should know better than to get side tracked on some secondary detail. Lucky for folks wanting to learn about WWII there are other sources than this Wikipedia article, which is bogged down in excruciating detail that fail to see the forest for the trees. --84.40.152.41 (talk) 08:16, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
84.40.152.41 I don't know why you coming at me this way. This picture with this caption has been in this article for a long time, and when Ed made a radical change to the caption without discussing it first on the Talk page, I reverted his edit. This is common WP editing. Now I am all open for a calm discussion about the correctness of the caption or other content in this page. So please, tell me which sentences or paragraph you would like to change and which sources you have to support those changes. Lova Falk (talk) 08:38, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There seems to be a simple misunderstanding here. There is a discussion about this photo above. The commons documentation identifies the photo as depicting a reenactment by German soldiers and members of the Danzig police. I would suggest that we simply change the caption to: "German soldiers and members of the Danzig police reenact...etc." Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Aemilius Adolphin Would you please scrutinise the results of my edits and change where you think they needed to be changed. I got a bit upset being accused of non-sense and wanting to do everything right, and instead, made mistakes. I will leave this page for now. Lova Falk (talk) 09:31, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Aemilius Adolphin and Lova Falk, one source which was used to back up the claim that this was just the Danzig police [4] shows the photo and cities Foto: fot. Wikipedia/domena publiczna. we are going in a citation loop. Can we use less speculative sources for this photo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.40.152.41 (talk) 09:48, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have made the change. The Polish source states that it was just the Danzig police dressed as soldiers. But isn't it enough to simply state that it is a German proaganda reenactment? Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 09:54, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Aemilius Adolphin, but pls remove the citation currently in the image thumb caption, this is SYNTH. The picture in Wiki Commons is not from that source and that source is speculative in nature. Also, pls add these hyperlinks to make it easier to understand the context: "A German propaganda photograph reenacting the removal of the Polish border crossing at Sopot.
Lova Falk, I would recommend adjusting the description to "A Nazi propaganda photograph showing German troops and Danzig functionaries tearing down the border crossing into Poland".
I had a chance to look over the history and the original description said: "Soldiers of the German Wehrmacht tearing down the border crossing into Poland, 1 September 1939". This description which was around for years got changed on 30 September 2024 by EUPBR. Other copies of this photograph on Wiki Commons from German Federal Archive[5] says German soldiers and this photo from the Imperial War Museums[6] say German troops. There is some speculation if these were German SS troops instead of German soldiers and instead of Danzig police its was Danzig customs guards. But, this is speculation official propaganda text said German soldiers and archived images also say this. In this case we don't want to start personal reaserch through synthesis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.40.152.41 (talk) 09:38, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
My mastery of the Polish language gained through Google translate tells me that the photograph was staged on 4 September and widely used in German newspapers. So I think the photo has value as an illustration of the very early German propaganda war over Poland. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 10:20, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Lova Falk, I assume you missed my comment above where I linked to the same Polish radio source I used when updating the caption, but thank you for further updating it. :-) Ed[talk][OMT]14:23, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the photo with the edit summary: Do we really need a staged propaganda photo? How does this improve the readers understanding per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE? I also removed it as the simplest solution to this kafuffle. If we need an image here (there are already enough), there must be images that are accurate (not staged) and relevant to the invasion of Poland. Aemilius Adolphin reinstated the image with the summary: It shows that the Germans were engaged in a propaganda war. Please discuss on Talk. Per IMAGERELEVANCE: Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative. Each image in an article should have a clear and unique illustrative purpose and serve as an important illustrative aid to understanding. Using the photo might satisfy MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE if it were placed in a section on propaganda but this is about the invasion of Poland. Nowhere is propaganda mentioned in the section. Nowhere in the section is Danzig or Sopot mentioned. There is no clear link between Danzig and Sopot. There is zero IMAGERELEVANCE as the article stands. Cinderella157 (talk) 02:39, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The kerfuffle seems to have been settled by simply changing the caption and adding a reliable source. That said, if there is a consensus for removing it altogether or replacing it with a real image of Germany invading Poland I wouldn't care one way or the other. I just think there should be some discussion and consensus before an established image is removed. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:28, 19 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
This is actually an infamous photograph that was widely shown in Germany during the invasion, and as Aemilius Adolphin mentioned the fact that it was propaganda also has value, as it played a key role in the conflict. @Aemilius Adolphin, perhaps it might be a good option to add hyperlink–Propaganda in World War II–to the word "propaganda" in the image caption, also include this hyperlink–Second Polish Republic–to "Polish border crossing" to show that Poland had very different borders during the interwar period. These are just a few helpful pointers for the reader to show a bit of context behind the photograph. Otherwise, I'm fine with the new picture description.
I can look into this, but you need to do more first. Please tell me in which sentence, or which paragraph they should be added, and please also provide a source. Lova Falk (talk) 07:02, 18 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
France is listed as one of the Allies in the article and in the link in the Info Box. As for including de Gaulle as a major allied leader, this has been discussed many times and the consensus is not to include him. You can see the previous discussions in the Talk Page archives above. If you think you have identified several recent scholarly sources which state that de Gaulle was a major allied commander and leader you can begin another Talk page discussion on the topic citing these sources. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:40, 23 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Not done: The Nanjing Massacre is mentioned, and so are Japanese war crimes in the Far East as crimes against humanity. That is what the scope of the article (largely picking up in 1939) allows us to do. Remsense ‥ 论04:18, 4 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"...Meanwhile, the victorious Allies of World War I, such as France, Belgium, Italy, Romania, and Greece, gained territory, and new nation-states were created out of the dissolution of the Austro-Hungarian, Ottoman, and Russian Empires."
Sykes-Picot and similar secret agreements are not told (maybe deliberately ignored) here.
Well before the conclusion of ww1 some allied powers decided to carve up old empires (read Turkish Empire). After 1917 USSR declared all secret treaties including Sykes-Picot which plans to carve up Turkish Empire. Check treaty by yourself: Sykes–Picot Agreement178.244.115.94 (talk) 17:45, 8 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
There is no mention about 11 millions people (civilians) who died in Iran in the middle of world war 2 because of occupation of Iran by British army while Iran announced neutral in that war. all the supplies in Iran were taken by British army
I wanted to check the date of the end of the war in Europe (VE day). This is not readily apparent in the article. Three places for it to appear would be in the info box, the lead or in the section "Start and end dates".
In the info box, despite all the rules, it would make sense to show both VE day and VJ day. In the lead, the article is too involved in dealing with the historical complexities of when the war started and misses the simple date on which the German surrender came into effect (which is celebrated as VE day). In the section "Start and end dates" it seems unbalanced to show a link to VJ day but no corresponding mention of VE day.
I think the article fails, in this regard, in being a useful encyclopaedia. Which solution(s) to this failing seem appropriate to those watching this article? ThoughtIdRetiredTIR15:09, 18 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I am aware of the mention in the lead that you quote. I think this is a case of "hidden in plain sight". The date (8 May 1945) appears in a sea of blue links. To put some stats on this, the paragraph in which this appears is 225 words long. Of those, 77 (or 34%) are blue, denoting a total of 24 links at a rate of 11% (number of links/divided by number of words)
Looking at the fine detail, the sentence that gives the date of the end of the war in Europe is 40 words long, 19 (48%) in blue with 13% as the link rate. At 48%, this is the most heavily linked sentence in the paragraph, or, looking at the link rate, it is exceeded by the last sentence (15%) and another at 13%. I am not suggesting that the article should be labelled as overlinked – this is a problem that we have to accept in a high level article. But it must be mitigated by having a better structure to the lead.
The key date (the end of the war in Europe) is submerged in a long sentence in the middle of a paragraph that summarises the conduct of the entire war. Surely the key dates: start date in Europe, start date in the Pacific/Far East, end in Europe, end in Pacific/Far East should all be clearly laid out in summary form in the lead. These are fundamental facts. We should not compel the reader to wade through a paragraph summarising the whole war to find (in the middle of that paragraph) the date of VE day. If something else in the lead has to go in order to fit that in, then so be it.
details about Japanese ministers is not as important as the Emporor
CHANGE
Frustrated at the lack of progress and feeling the pinch of the American–British–Dutch sanctions, Japan prepared for war. Emperor Hirohito, after initial hesitation about Japan's chances of victory,[4] began to favour Japan's entry into the war.[5] As a result, Prime Minister Fumimaro Konoe resigned.[6][7] Hirohito refused the recommendation to appoint Prince Naruhiko Higashikuni in his place, choosing War Minister Hideki Tojo instead.[8] On 3 November, Nagano explained in detail the plan of the attack on Pearl Harbor to the Emperor.[9] On 5 November, Hirohito approved in imperial conference the operations plan for the war.[10] On 20 November, the new government presented an interim proposal as its final offer. It called for the end of American aid to China and for lifting the embargo on the supply of oil and other resources to Japan. In exchange, Japan promised not to launch any attacks in Southeast Asia and to withdraw its forces from southern Indochina.[11] The American counter-proposal of 26 November required that Japan evacuate all of China without conditions and conclude non-aggression pacts with all Pacific powers.[12] That meant Japan was essentially forced to choose between abandoning its ambitions in China, or seizing the natural resources it needed in the Dutch East Indies by force;[13][14] the Japanese military did not consider the former an option, and many officers considered the oil embargo an unspoken declaration of war.[15]
TO
After initial hesitation about Japan's chances of victory, Emperor Hirohito began to favour Japan's entry into the war.[4][16] On 3 November, Nagano explained in detail the plan of the attack on Pearl Harbor to the Emperor.[17] On 5 November, Hirohito approved in imperial conference the operations plan for the war.[10] On 20 November, the new government presented an interim proposal as its final offer. It called for the end of American aid to China and for lifting the embargo on the supply of oil and other resources to Japan. In exchange, Japan promised not to launch any attacks in Southeast Asia and to withdraw its forces from southern Indochina.[11] The American counter-proposal of 26 November required that Japan evacuate all of China without conditions and conclude non-aggression pacts with all Pacific powers.[18] That meant Japan was essentially forced to choose between abandoning its ambitions in China, or seizing the natural resources it needed in the Dutch East Indies by force;[19][20] the Japanese military did not consider the former an option, and many officers considered the oil embargo an unspoken declaration of war.[15]Cognsci (talk) 15:34, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
removed excessive detail about Japan's plans
CHANGE
Japan planned to seize European colonies in Asia to create a large defensive perimeter stretching into the Central Pacific. The Japanese would then be free to exploit the resources of Southeast Asia while exhausting the over-stretched Allies by fighting a defensive war.[21][22] To prevent American intervention while securing the perimeter, it was further planned to neutralise the United States Pacific Fleet and the American military presence in the Philippines from the outset.[23] On 7 December 1941 (8 December in Asian time zones), Japan attacked British and American holdings with near-simultaneous offensives against Southeast Asia and the Central Pacific.[24] These included an attack on the American fleets at Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, as well as invasions of Guam, Wake Island, Malaya,[24]Thailand, and Hong Kong.[25]
These attacks led the United States, United Kingdom, China, Australia, and several other states to formally declare war on Japan, whereas the Soviet Union, being heavily involved in large-scale hostilities with European Axis countries, maintained its neutrality agreement with Japan.[26] Germany, followed by the other Axis states, declared war on the United States[27] in solidarity with Japan, citing as justification the American attacks on German war vessels that had been ordered by Roosevelt.[28][29]
TO
Japan planned to create a large defensive perimeter stretching into the Central Pacific and exhaust the over-stretched Allies by fighting a defensive war.[30][31] On 7 December 1941 (8 December in Asian time zones), Japan attacked British and American holdings with near-simultaneous offensives against Southeast Asia and the Central Pacific.[24] These included an attack on the American fleets at Pearl Harbor and the Philippines, as well as invasions of Guam, Wake Island, Malaya,[24]Thailand, and Hong Kong.[32] These attacks led the United States, United Kingdom, China, Australia, and several other states to formally declare war on Japan, whereas the Soviet Union, being heavily involved in large-scale hostilities with European Axis countries, maintained its neutrality agreement with Japan.[33] Germany, followed by the other Axis states, declared war on the United States[34] in solidarity with Japan, citing as justification the American attacks on German war vessels that had been ordered by Roosevelt.[28][35]Cognsci (talk) 16:16, 19 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
^Painter 2012, p. 26 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFPainter2012 (help): "The United States cut off oil exports to Japan in the summer of 1941, forcing Japanese leaders to choose between going to war to seize the oil fields of the Netherlands East Indies or giving in to U.S. pressure."
^Wood 2007, p. 9 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFWood2007 (help), listing various military and diplomatic developments, observes that "the threat to Japan was not purely economic."
^Painter 2012, p. 26 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFPainter2012 (help): "The United States cut off oil exports to Japan in the summer of 1941, forcing Japanese leaders to choose between going to war to seize the oil fields of the Netherlands East Indies or giving in to U.S. pressure."
^Wood 2007, p. 9 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFWood2007 (help), listing various military and diplomatic developments, observes that "the threat to Japan was not purely economic."
^Weinberg 2005, p. 310 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFWeinberg2005 (help)
^Dower 1986, p. 5 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDower1986 (help), calls attention to the fact that "the Allied struggle against Japan exposed the racist underpinnings of the European and American colonial structure. Japan did not invade independent countries in southern Asia. It invaded colonial outposts which the Westerners had dominated for generations, taking absolutely for granted their racial and cultural superiority over their Asian subjects." Dower goes on to note that, before the horrors of Japanese occupation made themselves felt, many Asians responded favourably to the victories of the Imperial Japanese forces.
^Wood 2007, pp. 11–12. sfn error: no target: CITEREFWood2007 (help)
^Dunn 1998, p. 157 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDunn1998 (help). According to May 1955, p. 155 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFMay1955 (help), Churchill stated: "Russian declaration of war on Japan would be greatly to our advantage, provided, but only provided, that Russians are confident that will not impair their Western Front."
^ abCite error: The named reference Events1941 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^Klooz, Marle; Wiley, Evelyn (1944), Events leading up to World War II – Chronological History, 78th Congress, 2d Session – House Document N. 541, Director: Humphrey, Richard A., Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, p. 310 (1941), archived from the original on 14 December 2013, retrieved 9 May 2013
^Weinberg 2005, p. 310 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFWeinberg2005 (help)
^Dower 1986, p. 5 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDower1986 (help), calls attention to the fact that "the Allied struggle against Japan exposed the racist underpinnings of the European and American colonial structure. Japan did not invade independent countries in southern Asia. It invaded colonial outposts which the Westerners had dominated for generations, taking absolutely for granted their racial and cultural superiority over their Asian subjects." Dower goes on to note that, before the horrors of Japanese occupation made themselves felt, many Asians responded favourably to the victories of the Imperial Japanese forces.
^Dunn 1998, p. 157 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFDunn1998 (help). According to May 1955, p. 155 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFMay1955 (help), Churchill stated: "Russian declaration of war on Japan would be greatly to our advantage, provided, but only provided, that Russians are confident that will not impair their Western Front."
^Klooz, Marle; Wiley, Evelyn (1944), Events leading up to World War II – Chronological History, 78th Congress, 2d Session – House Document N. 541, Director: Humphrey, Richard A., Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, p. 310 (1941), archived from the original on 14 December 2013, retrieved 9 May 2013
level-3 vital article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
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Not done for now: Please provide sources. Warriorglance(talk to me) 05:59, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
Not done: The Nanjing Massacre is mentioned, and so are Japanese war crimes in the Far East as crimes against humanity. That is what the scope of the article (largely picking up in 1939) allows us to do. Remsense ‥ 论 04:18, 4 April 2025 (UTC)
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